Exclusive Interview with Michael Moore of TV Nation

by Ron Sheldon

This article was reprinted from the September 23, 1995 issue of the People's Weekly World. For subscription information see below. All rights reserved - may be used with PWW credits.

Michael Moore launched his film work with Roger & Me in 1989. Although snubbed by the Academy Awards, it went on to become the highest-grossing documentary in film history. The story takes place in Moore's hometown of Flint, Michigan and deals with the devastation wrought by GM when it decided to cut back production in that town. Moore's confrontational, persistent and humorous style of searching for the truth won the hearts of working people worldwide. A short sequel, Pets or Meat: The Return to Flint, followed the story of Rhoda Britton, Roger & Me's "Bunny Lady."

The success of Roger & Me allowed Moore the opportunity to produce one of the most politically challenging and entertaining series on television. TV Nation broke grounds in gaining TV access for the progressive view. Although continually threatened with cancellation, the show went on to produce some of the most biting political humor available on television. In one episode Moore took Communist Party literature -- in a big red semi with a hammer and sickle on the side -- through the Deep South to see if the Cold War had really ended.

Prior to his film work, Moore founded the Flint Voice, an alternative newspaper he edited before a brief stint as editor of Mother Jones. He has also been a commentator on National Public Radio. World writer Ron Sheldon interviewed Moore at the Toronto Film Festival during the North American premiere of his hilarious new political comedy, Canadian Bacon.

World: Canadian Bacon was the funniest film at the festival, at the same time one of the most serious. How does humor fit into political action?

Moore: First of all, I think humor is a very effective means of communicating a message to people. I think we've all seen that too many people are turned off by the sort of soapbox kind of preaching. That stuff's good when you're preaching to the converted, but when you're trying to convert, for whatever reason, wherever we're at now in 1995 in America, it doesn't work very well. So I decided to use my sense of humor as a means to affect change, to get people thinking about the issues.

Underlying the humor though is a very serious point, and underneath that is a lot of anger. I think some of the best comedy comes from people who are very angry about the situations they see in the world and the humor sort of acts as a means to deal with the frustration of living in the society in which we live.

World: Roger & Me was a gutsy film, but Canadian Bacon takes American jingoism to the limits and should drive the message home even harder.

Moore: I was very concerned with the Gulf War and how quickly the people got behind this thing. And after the lessons of Vietnam I would think we should really be asking a lot of serious questions anytime someone says let's go to war. I just got to thinking, can you just name any country? Could the president say Canada is the new enemy? Is that the only way we can exist, that we have to have a war-based economy, whether it's Cold War or not?

World: In the movie you raise the issue of the connection between the government, corporations and the control of the media.

Moore: You'd be surprise how many American media people here are not wanting to talk about those issues. Either they don't get it, they don't see it, or they don't want to see it.

World: But of course these media workers are being paid by the very corporations you're talking about in the movie.

Moore: The first day we all gathered together to work on TV Nation I told everybody, "I want you to act and behave on the show as if this is the last thing you'll work on in media. Because if we do any less than that, you know we will have sold out, because this show is being carried on a Rupert Murdoch-owned network, and so we have to behave each week as if we are trying to get ourselves canceled by the man himself." I think by having that attitude we're able to do a lot of good work. But it has to be sincere. If you're a careerist, thinking only to advance your media career, then I don't really want to work with you.

World: The anti-corporate films you've been producing are being funded by large corporations. How does this work?

Moore: It's a living example of a lesson in capitalism. One of the most ironic things about capitalism is that the capitalist will sell you the rope to hang himself with. Actually they will give you the money to make a movie that makes them look bad, if they believe they can make money off it.

World: Is this sort of like when Marx said 'the bourgeoisie produce their own gravediggers?'

Moore: Basically. They exist to make a profit. They are that ruthless. As long as you make money and are attacking the government it doesn't matter. Obviously, they don't consider any of us a threat at this point. So they can say, oh yes, let Michael go do his little Newt Gingrich thing, or his little thing on the newspaper strike in Detroit. He's not going to really hurt us right now.

World: You've been described elsewhere as having "empathy" for the working class. How does that happen?

Moore: I think it's just the function of growing up in Flint, Michigan, in that environment. My father worked on the assembly line at General Motors for 33 years. All of my uncles and aunts and grandparents worked for GM also.

World: Did you ever work for GM?

Moore: I quit my first day. One day at Buick. I said, "Man I can't do this. I'm just a wimp. I have to go back to writing." Then I started my own paper, the Flint Voice. My Uncle Laverne was in the Flint sit-down strike that helped start the UAW. Somehow I guess that sense was always there. Politics were discussed in our home.

World: Were they left-wing politics?

Moore: No, not at all. My parents were Irish Catholic democrats, basic liberal good people. They instilled in us kids a real sense of what was just, fair and all that. But it's not just an empathy with the working class. I am that. And what's really rare about all this, is that it's not often that we are given a voice in film. We have people, good liberals who write working class roles in films, but it's rare that we ourselves are given a camera and film and get to tell our own story, instead of somebody else telling our story for us.

And so what's happened to me through these film projects, I've had this opportunity to speak from this working class, Flint, Michigan perspective. I feel fortunate to be able to do that and I feel very responsible, too.

World: You've set up a fund to help struggling artists and groups on the left, the Center for Alternative Media. Can you describe this fund?

Moore: We have given grants now totaling over $400,000 just from the profits of Roger & Me. I decided to give away 50 percent of whatever I earned from the film. But that's my own personal choice, and I know some people reading this will think 'what is this guy, crazy?' But it's because of where I come from, you know I like the life I had before Roger & Me. I never made more than $15,000 a year and I still only own three pairs of blue jeans and one Detroit Tigers cap.

As far as recipients, I helped fund a number of independent and documentary films, including Panama Deception, which won an Academy Award. I helped fund the first feature film that was distributed in this country by an African American woman called Just Another Girl On the IRT by Leslie Harris. I thought it was appalling that we're in the 100th year of cinema, and there has never been in the U.S. a film directed by an African American woman, and released by Hollywood, and that voice needs to be heard in American cinema.

World: Would you like to advertise where this fund is located?

Moore: (laughs) You know we do this very differently. We're not like the typical foundation. It's kind of like I see something and I just call up the person and say, "What's your address? I want to send you a check." It's really more from me, keeping with the spirit of Roger & Me. And what's incredible is the irony of this whole system. I basically get this money from Time-Warner and then recycle it into anti-corporate areas.

World: You have valuable connections and the ability to reach out with your message to greater advantage.

Moore: At this point I have a greater responsibility to make sure that I do good with what I've received. And the only reason I've received it is because average working stiffs were willing to go to the theater and pay seven bucks to see my movie. So if they're going to give me their money what am I going to with it? Get a big boat? I don't think so.

World: What inspired you to write Canadian Bacon?

Moore: The bombing had started in Iraq and four days later we were at the Sundance Film Festival and I really thought that as independent filmmakers we should take a stand against this war. So I approached John Sayles, who was emcee for the closing night awards, and said do you mind presenting this resolution that we could vote on. It said something simple like, 'We group of independent filmmakers oppose the American war in Iraq.' John said yeah, it's a great idea. He started to read the thing and people began hissing and booing him down, yelling this isn't politics, this is a film festival, hand out the awards.' Now this was a group of independent filmmakers, not ditto heads, people that you think are of like mind. I was shocked. I came home thinking, if this group of people has fallen for the support of the Gulf War, my work is cut out for me. And when Bush got that 90 percent approval rating, I said I've got to make a film for that other 10 percent in the hopes of building [on] that 10 percent.

World: Can you tell us a little about your wife, Kathleen Glynn?

Moore: She's from Flint also. Her dad worked in the shops. Regarding Canadian Bacon, she was co-producer, designed the costumes and the titles, and helped conceptualize the project. We've been partners on this stuff for a long time.

World: You can almost tell what episodes in TV Nation that you had a hand in writing.

Moore: I can't ask all my writers to be clones of me -- it would probably be boring. It's good the show is reflective of kind of where the American public is at. Some people are where I'm at, some are where Karen Duffy is at. However they can hook into it, so be it.

World: What about future projects?

Moore: (laughs) I'm going to join the Ice Capades. "Marx on Ice." I can see it now!

Actually, I'm currently working on a couple screenplays. The whole concept of Mark Fuhrman's America is on my mind and the racial issues that are still not resolved in our country. I want to give it a shot. I think this O.J. trial speaks volumes about our country. It goes way beyond the whole celebrity issue and the media frenzy over it. It says a lot about issues regarding race, police and corruption.

World: You're one of the few filmmakers in this country willing to tackle these issues from a class perspective. We wish you the best with your new film.

Moore: Thanks. Somebody came up to me and said Canadian Bacon is the first left-wing film for the mall crowd. I can only hope that that's what it is.